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Suspension/Chassis Tech Chassis | Suspension

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Old 05-29-2012, 10:07 PM
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Default Ford cant get a "brake"

I have been watching every video and reading every review on the 2013 GT, Boss 302, and GT500. And you know what they all have in common? Everyone hates their brakes. All 3 models have the same complaints. In a comparison between the zr1 with 140 more HP then the boss 302, the boss only lost because of its brakes. Then in a review of the Gt500 it stopped in 101' but was reported that as the brakes heated up that got much worse Nd there was a lot of brake smell. I thought these were suppose to be the best mustangs ever. I guess ford forgot something
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:07 AM
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Two buddies of mine were down at Virginia International Race Way (VIR) running 08' Roush Trak Paks this past weekend. It was an SVT event. Trak Paks put 365 to the wheels. Well the Boss 302's were no match for the track packs. The Boss 302's are running similar suspension to a Trak Pak. Similar rears but have 6 speeds, so you would think the Boss 302's would win ... wrong!

Joe, you hit the nail right on the head. the Boss 302's still come with the decorative Brembos. Until Ford decides to step up to the plate and put real brakes on them they will loose. Remember last year the Laguna Seca crashed in front of my at Pocono. (he only past me once all day) Why ..... he overheated his brakes and when he passed me and went into the corner with to hot for his decorative brakes to slow him down. (Poor bastard has not been back to the track since)

My buddies down at VIR watched a Boss 302 crash head first into a tire wall right in front of them. They were running nose to tail (Boss, Trak Pak, Trak Pak)for 5 laps. I guess that was one lap more than the Boss should have. Why did the Boss crash? ... the stop pedal was not up to the task. I should have some video of that shortly.

The problem is our cars are so much heavier than exotics. 4 piston Brembos work on a Lotus but not on a Mustang. My 6 piston StopTechs are the one mod that has made me faster almost more than my other mods combined. The ability to go deep into a corner makes you faster ... PERIOD

I am not sure if they forgot something or they just dont want to price the Mutang out of reach. Brakes are real expensive. 4 piston Brembos can be gotten for $1,000. 6 piston StopTechs like mine are $3,000.+ The pads were $700 on top of the $3K.

Mustang guys never brag about stopping power so Ford has decided to spend money on the go fast parts and realize for 99% of the Mustangs will never see a track like mine does. So a serious big brake kit is over kill and decorative red calipers are all 99% of Mustang owners need.

PS- Having said that I would love to drive the Boss around the track with a serious set of brakes on it.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:58 PM
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There is no reason the brakes need to cost that much on a factory car. There are plenty if cars that stop much better and I can't see them needing $700 pads.

In one video I watched the zr1, despite its power only pulled the boss 302 4/10 of a second on the straits but beat it by 2 seconds overall, because of the braking. So if the zr1 can do it and be a factory car why can't the boss 302, never mind the Gt500. I'm willing to bet the brakes will be a huge limiting factor in the Gt500's ability to compete with the zr1.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:02 PM
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Ask some of the Vette guys what they pay for pads and brakes .. they are not cheap. And the Vipers ..... Ask Frank with his Shelby GT. He has a great brake set up. The problem is the Mustang needs big expensive brakes to slow its fat self down. The Vetter weighs much less. For them to brake the same the Mustang needs much better brakes. It is the laws of physics ... period.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nojoke327 View Post
There is no reason the brakes need to cost that much on a factory car. There are plenty if cars that stop much better and I can't see them needing $700 pads.

In one video I watched the zr1, despite its power only pulled the boss 302 4/10 of a second on the straits but beat it by 2 seconds overall, because of the braking. So if the zr1 can do it and be a factory car why can't the boss 302, never mind the Gt500. I'm willing to bet the brakes will be a huge limiting factor in the Gt500's ability to compete with the zr1.
Why would you even compare a ZR1 with carbon ceramic brakes weighing hundreds of pounds less to a GT500 running around on 1pc steel rotors with a 6piston caliper(2013)? Seriously thats a not even apples to apples.

Heavy cars with heavy front weight bias will be harder on the brakes. The 2012 and older cars run a 14" rotor/4piston Brembo setup. Its a serious street setup, for road course duty you need to add in the right parts. Pads, braided lines and fluid to really get consistency. Most cars experience brake fade at some point or another on a road course. Some take far longer...

People keep comparing the GT500 and Boss 302 to Corvettes when they should be comparing to AMG Coupes, M series BMW's and so on. Those are like style GT cars not full blown sports cars.

Few cars come with brakes standard you do want or need to change. The ZR1 is one of those cars where the stock brake setup gets it done. But thats a 6 figure entry price for a new one.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:54 AM
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I just realized I was typing the wrong name. I meant to compare against the zl1 not zr1. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:35 AM
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Ah ha... Thats a different comparison and lets then put that into perspective a Boss 302 is only 2 seconds a lap slower in the recent mag test vs the ZL1. With far less power so with more power and comparable weight in the GT500 it should at the very least be as fast as the ZL1.

I drove a ZL1 this week, I admit it was damn nice in terms of ride/braking/handling. But for the money the GT500 is more well rounded.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:58 AM
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Ahhh ... The Camaro ZL1 is closer to a Caddy CTS-V then it is to its look like Camaro stable mates. I have learned to stay away from CTS-V's on the track. The suspension set up, magnetic ride, brakes ... everything about the set up is top notch. The ZL1 borrows much of this technology and the price tag reflects it.

On road course race tracks I have no problems with Camaros. I am faster in the twisties and I don't give up much on the straights. My lap times are better overall.

Here is a video with Randy Pobst. He is top notch in my book.

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Old 05-31-2012, 09:30 AM
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That is the video I was talking about
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:36 AM
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It's interesting. The lap delta is about 2.4 seconds. Randy attributes only .4 seconds to the increased horse power. The rest would be brakes and handling.

I cant wait to see one on track!
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:10 AM
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That's what got me thinking about this whole thing.the extra HP really doesn't help the camaro. Why is the best production track mustang ever being beaten so badly?
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:25 AM
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Old School vs New School. Please be aware 99% of Camaros wallow around the track. They are big fat pigs. The ZL1 is special and for that you will pay a price. Put my brakes on the Boss and I would like to see what the lap difference would be.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:30 PM
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I'm sure your brakes on the boss would be great. You should get one so we can find out. LOL
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:02 PM
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I will take a collection at Bear Mountain!

I could not believe how many Boss 302's were at the track last time. All but one were in lower groups then me. One was in the instructor group. It was gutted and had a full cage.

I guess the take away from this thread is Ford has to step up the technology in the. Mustang.

Let's not forget the 5.0 owns the BMW M3 on the track and for years that was the bench mark.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:39 PM
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I cannot wait to see the zl1 v. gt500!
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